Curse

Lanier · Jul 10, 2010, 04:59 AM // 04:59

The Eotn PvE skills need removing from the game. Many of them are simply too powerful. Power Creep was advanced exponentially when eotn came out simply because of the power of these skills. I mean skills like Ebon vanguard assassin support, finish him, "you move like a dwarf" and pain inverter dont belong in the game. They are simply too powerful and contribute to making PvE rediculously easy to steamroll.

Another reason why these skills need removal is because they go a long way in erasing class differentiation. Yea... uh, thats a bad thing.

Anyway, go ahead and agree or flame all you want.

mage767 · Jul 10, 2010, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Don't like them, then don't use them.

Give others a chance to abuse them.

Those skills are a selling point for EOTN, so they will never be removed.

Del · Jul 10, 2010, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Yeah, they are op, but to suggest removing them just because you don't like them is pretty much just trying to force people to play how you want to play.

/nosir

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 10, 2010, 06:41 AM // 06:41

/notsigned. Firstly, there are a few reasons why Anet won't do this, and secondly, if PvE was going to be fixed there would be a lot more to do than just picking out a few PvE-only skills. Con removal and a redevelopment of HM (less numbers pushed up and better AI) come to mind.

Bob Slydell · Jul 10, 2010, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I don't think they will or should remove any form of content from the game, but i agree with how these skills are making guildwars into one big class. The skills do make pve a bit harder in terms of finding a group and trying not to get kicked out of it when you don't want to run godmode-way or some other bullshit consisting of 3 overused unoriginal pve only skills.

But it seems too late to turn back now. The community has already lost all forms of free thinking and originality to survive in gw after pve only skills have been removed and are forced to play with actual class skill powers.

Tenebrae · Jul 10, 2010, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Is there a mid term ? you know , maybe something like :
- 1 pve slot for NM
- 2 pve slot for HM or Elite areas NM
- 3 pve slot for Elite areas in HM
Erasing them is a mistake but having 3 of them without restrictions anytime you want is overpowered yes.

Ben-A-BoO · Jul 10, 2010, 08:29 AM // 08:29

This is suggestion is neither new (EotN was released almost three years ago!) nor innovative...

It takes a lot more to 'balance' PvE. Some WiK stuff reminds you how tough even NM could be in times. However even that's not balanced. There would be a lot to do, as removing Heroes before removing PvE-skills (yes those two are related). But you'd have to jump back in time roughly four years and get a influential job at ANet to make that happen.

Good Luck trying!

Mintha Syl · Jul 10, 2010, 09:13 AM // 09:13

You're not forced to use them, nor to play with someone who does. And they're not interfering with you other way, since it's only PVE and you can even pretend they don't exist at all.
Same with heroes

/notnotnot signed

Xsiriss · Jul 10, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Only if they implement 6 heroes and make HM less of a Gankfest (ridiculous attributes,armour and hp levels is not the way to make things 'hard').

Jade Zephyr · Jul 10, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Only if they implement 6 heroes and make HM less of a Gankfest (ridiculous attributes,armour and hp levels is not the way to make things 'hard').

Getting "carried" by more Heroes is hardly a decent soulution either..

AmbientMelody · Jul 10, 2010, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Limit of one PvE skill (sunspear, lightbringer, kurzick/luxon, eotn) per skillbar would be enough. That way some PvE skills would be left intact, other slightly buffed. It would be nice to see some cross-player synergy between PvE skills that they use, rather than self-reliant spam of 3 PvE skills on each player's skillbar. They could make heroes able to equip 1 PvE skill as well, in that case. Player base is dwindling and punishing someone for using heroes is nonsense at this point.

My main pain with PvE skills is that they are too 'generic', they often don't go well with class that uses them at all. At least they don't repeat this error in GW2 because each class will have separate 'racial' skills.

GW was great without PvE skills, but removing them isn't a solution once they are in place.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 10, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

It's been suggested before!

(about a day after they were added to GW)

/not signed.

rkubik · Jul 10, 2010, 12:51 PM // 12:51

The basic PVE skill is not over-powered. They become great when you start to advance your titles which gives people incentive to play. Like was said earlier if you don't like them then don't use them. There is no rule that you have to use a PVE skill.

Xenomortis · Jul 10, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

It's too late for something so crude to ever have a hope of working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkubik

The basic PVE skill is not over-powered. They become great when you start to advance your titles which gives people incentive to play. Like was said earlier if you don't like them then don't use them. There is no rule that you have to use a PVE skill.

No, but deliberately gimping yourself is seldom fun.
The trouble with the "incentive to play" thing, is that you shouldn't need an incentive to play. I want to play a game because I want to have fun - grinding up a title to max the power of some skills is not fun and opposes the original design of Guild Wars (whilst skill over time arguably doesn't apply in PvE, it does to an extent).
If I require incentives to play a game, the game is doing something wrong.

Lanier · Jul 10, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Don't like them, then don't use them.

Give others a chance to abuse them.

Those skills are a selling point for EOTN, so they will never be removed.

Yea, i recognize that Anet would probably never remove them, but that doesn't mean we can't bring it up as a topic in sardelac. Anyway, I personally don't use them for the reasons i mentioned above but im tired of constantly being hounded for it and kicked for not willing to bring them. It gets on you after awhile and is really lowering the willingness (for me that is) to going with pugs.

Quote:

Yeah, they are op, but to suggest removing them just because you don't like them is pretty much just trying to force people to play how you want to play.

Its not about forcing people to play the way i do. Its about making players in PvE less godmodeish.

Quote:

if PvE was going to be fixed there would be a lot more to do than just picking out a few PvE-only skills.

Well of course, but it is a step in the process.

Quote:

This is suggestion is neither new (EotN was released almost three years ago!) nor innovative...

So? its still something that in my opinion needs to be addressed.

Quote:

You're not forced to use them, nor to play with someone who does.

lolwut? Practically everyone uses them.

Quote:

Only if they implement 6 heroes and make HM less of a Gankfest (ridiculous attributes,armour and hp levels is not the way to make things 'hard').

I actually agree with this. Allowing us to use more heroes would add the strategic element of teamplay for when a guildy is unavailable or when you arn't sure how long you can play without having to go afk (which is often the case for me - i dont set aside time to play this). Personally, I would like to see HM buffed in a way that slightly increases monster level, health (not armor), and damage but also makes monster mobs "better" with at least two healers in mobs and better skillbars.

Quote:

My main pain with PvE skills is that they are too 'generic',

Thats the reason I don't use them either. They may be overpowered, but the reason why I choose not to use them is because a skill like EVAS shouldn't belong on a mesmer or rits skill bar.

Quote:

It's been suggested before!

Hey there, great reason to /notsign it!

Well to be honest, I am kind of surprised that there is so much opposition. The issue of these eotn skills really do need to be addressed, and if there is so much opposition to giving Anet the easy job of removing them, I think we should at least push for the most powerful and popular ones (EVAS, finish him, you move like a dwarf, great dwarf weapon, pain inverter, etc.) to be nerfed so that they arn't seen on practically every non-healer's skillbar.

Swahnee · Jul 10, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Some random thoughts..

Agreed with other posters saying that before removing PvE skills (or even balancing the "normal" skills) it would be better to improve monsters AI (or, even better, give monsters increasing "intelligence" as you proceed into the game, as to say, stupid monsters in pre-searing, and very smart ones in elite areas), and make battles of humans vs monsters like 8v8, 6v6, 4v4 etc., and not small groups vs hordes.

The problem of players' habit. If ANet introduced tomorrow a super-overpowered skill, and then nerfed it after, say, 7 days, i think that people would say: "Well, they're right, after all that was an umbalanced skill for sure". If they decided to let that skill in the game for a long time, people would get used to that skill, and would start to think that it's "right" to use it, even if it's unbalanced and bad for the game. People raged a lot after Ursan's nerf because ANet chose to let Ursan in the game for a long time, instead of nerfing it the week after the first elite area's run, so letting people get used to that skill. And the same can be said for Shadow Form's "nerf". As far as consumable, PvE skills, heroes, etc. are concerned, after all this time how many people would rage and maybe leave the game if they were removed, and how many would agree with their removal? ANet needs to think also about this. They first need to give people something else, more interesting and funny than those items (for example challenging AI which would promote class diversity and the use of different techniques than just plain raw damage and healing, like snare, disrupt, pressure, etc.), and only after that they can think about removing PvE skills, etc.

The problem of people's awareness. When they recently "nerfed" Shadow Form, a lot of people thought that it was indeed nerfed, and start whining about things like (listened in-game) "Now it's impossibile to farm", "Now the Assassin is useless", "Now it's impossible to get a FoW armor", etc. Someone even left the game for it. They didn't realize that the skill wasn't nerfed at all, but, we can say, buffed instead. But this isn't the real problem. Obviously, we can't pretend that anyone should immediately realize what are the new uses of a skill just changed in functionality, they need some time. The problem is the unwillingness of people of thinking about new things, which make them rage and quit instead of start to think, and in my opinion this is connected with the way of thinking that the title system and the shifting of the endgame from PvP to PvE have introduced into the game. If the endgame is PvP, people get used to think in a certain way, for example they give importance to something like knowing game mechanics, adapting to new situations, play for the fun of it (like a sport i may say) and not for a "material" reward. If the endgame is made of titles obtained smashing monsters in PvE, then people get used to think about obtaining the biggest reward with the smallest work, and so if things change a lot (nerf of the meta farming skill for example) and you have to think about how to do now what you used to do before, this is time passing without receiving any reward, without increasing your rank, and so it's bad. Now, i don't want to say that one way of thinking is "better" that the other: everyone can play like he wants. But, if there are some side effects, like the fact that ANet has to move very carefully when it comes to make some change in the game, not to hurt players who aren't used to react to new situations, and so we see important game updates like skill balance very rarely, or we will probably never see some new things we are talking about (in this thread for example), we know where does this come from, and who to blame, which is us players, in the end.

Ranger Jaap · Jul 10, 2010, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Yeah, they are op, but to suggest removing them just because you don't like them is pretty much just trying to force people to play how you want to play.

/nosir

THIS. people keep Q Qing over speedclears and other OP stuff. the game is quite old now and you dont have to use those pve skills or other OP skills.

Lanier · Jul 10, 2010, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger Jaap

THIS. people keep Q Qing over speedclears and other OP stuff. the game is quite old now and you dont have to use those pve skills or other OP skills.

What does the game being old have to do with anything?

Regardless of whether or not i choose to use it, they are still OPed and OPed skills need nerfs. The reason why i suggested removal over killing through nerfs is because Anet shouldn't be discouraging class differentiation. However, like I stated above, I would be fine with severely nerfing them as well.

Morphy · Jul 10, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Complete waste of time.

Quail Stomp · Jul 10, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

PvE skills are just a crutch for bad players.
/signed